Muharem Rusiti
January 2025
The 2024 U.S. presidential election marked a turning point in how political campaigns are conducted, with podcasts – and new media in general – playing an increasingly pivotal role in the race between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. This transformation reflects broader changes in media consumption patterns and highlights how political campaigns must evolve to take advantage of novel forms of outreach and engagement.
Trump’s victory speech notably included a telling moment when his longtime friend Dana White – who, by the way, was recently appointed in January 2025 to Meta’s board of directors,[1] the parent company of Facebook and Instagram – specifically thanked podcast hosts like Joe Rogan and the Nelk Boys, highlighting the importance of these digital platforms in securing the Republican candidate’s win: “I wanna thank some people real quick. I wanna thank the Nelk Boys, Adin Ross, Theo Von, Bussin’ With The Boys, and last but not least, the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan.”[2]
A Changing Media Landscape
Since Trump’s first presidential run in 2016, monthly podcast listeners have more than doubled to approximately 135 million Americans,[3] [4] with particularly strong engagement among younger demographics, as they are reported to use digital media at higher rates than older adults and are much more inclined than their elders to engage with podcasts.[5] [6] According to a Pew Research study: “Two-thirds of adults under 30 say they have listened to a podcast in the past 12 months, as do almost six-in-ten respondents ages of 30 to 49 (58%). Listening drops off substantially among older groups, to 42% among those ages 50 to 64 and 28% among Americans 65 and older.”[7]
Conversely, traditional or legacy media outlets – which have historically been more popular among older audiences – have seen a significant decline. For instance, CNN’s viewership dropped from 1.24 million viewers per evening in 2016 to 924,000 in 2024, while newspaper Sunday circulation nearly halved in the same timeframe.[8]
As Jennifer Mercieca, professor at Texas A&M University and historian of political rhetoric in the U.S., recently noted: “Candidates want to reach out to voters, and so they want to meet them where they are, and at this moment in time, it's a smart move to go on podcasts.”[9] Similarly, Joshua Scacco, director of the Center for Sustainable Democracy and associate professor of political communication at the University of South Florida, emphasized: “Candidates must now chase their audiences into settings like podcast shows [...].”[10]
Acknowledging this shift, Trump commented during his appearance on Lex Fridman’s podcast[11] in September 2024: “You have traditional television, which is getting a little bit older and maybe less significant. [...] From a political standpoint, you have to find out what people are doing, what they’re watching, and you have to get on.”[12]
It is no mystery, then, that the Republican nominee's media strategy relied heavily on his attendances on numerous podcasts – especially with the aim of increasing outreach to younger voters – while the Harris campaign took, in contrast, a more limited approach to podcast appearances, which many analysts suggest was a clear strategic error. As a result of these differing campaign strategies, Trump appeared on 14 major podcasts,[13] while Harris on only six,[14] giving the Republican a much greater presence and sway than his rival Democratic competitor on the digital format.
The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast
Joe Rogan’s podcast commands a massive digital footprint, with over 14.5 million Spotify followers,[15] 18.8 million YouTube subscribers,[16] 19.6 Instagram followers,[17] and 14.5 million X (formerly Twitter) followers,[18] making it the most popular podcast in the U.S.[19] This extensive reach is particularly significant, given that the majority of Rogan’s listeners (51%) fall in the 18-34 age range[20] and span the political spectrum: 32% identify as Republicans, 27% as Democrats, and 35% do not fit into either category.[21] In short, this is a demographic both candidates should have targeted.
Trump’s appearance on Rogan’s show garnered more than 40 million views[22] on YouTube alone by Election Day – numbers that TV executives can only dream of – demonstrating once again the unparalleled reach of these digital platforms.
Kamala Harris, on the other hand, turned down an offer to appear on Rogan’s podcast, missing a huge opportunity for earned media exposure. As Maxwell Modell, a researcher at the Cardiff University School of Journalism, Media and Culture, wrote in a recent article for the online media outlet The Conversation: “Candidates must meet voters where they are. By avoiding podcasts like Rogan’s and not addressing audiences beyond her immediate political base, Harris and the Democrats failed to do that. This allowed Trump to take full advantage of Rogan’s platform without any resistance.”[23]
The Multiplier Effect
Podcast appearances generated impact far beyond their original broadcasts, producing countless viral clips that spread across diverse traditional and social media outlets – particularly on Elon Musk’s X and TikTok – like wildfire,[24] creating a massive cascade of additional exposure and engagement through derivative content and other media amplification that we shall call the ‘multiplier effect’. And as journalist Teresa Elliott, chief revenue officer at Ad Results Media, recently wrote, this phenomenon produced “a level of influence that can’t be matched by an ad or even a sponsored social post.”[25]
Moreover, as Calder McHugh, deputy editor of Politico’s Nightly, observed shortly after the election: “The Nelk Boys, Ross, Von, and Will Compton and Taylor Lewan of Barstool Sports’ Bussin’ with the Boys are all lifestyle podcasters and comedians with huge followings on YouTube and TikTok. Clips from their shows are shared widely across social media, racking up billions of views. [...] The Trump campaign successfully played this to their electoral advantage with his spate of podcast appearances. [...] Rogan, Von and the host of other creators with whom Trump spoke have a long reach beyond Spotify, as well. Their content is deeply popular on YouTube and TikTok, where algorithmic pressures also steer regular listeners toward more conservative viewpoints. People who like Von’s comedy might find TikTok feeding them clips of his interview with Trump, for example, which will then lead them into more pro-Trump content.”[26]
And as Eric Wilson, a Republican digital strategist and executive director of the Center for Campaign Innovation, a Washington-based think tank, noted: “Mr. Trump had taken advantage of TikTok in a way that other Republican lawmakers had not.” [27] This might also explain why, in a U-turn from his previous stance, Trump recently expressed support for TikTok against a potential U.S. ban, as diverse journalists have reported.[28] [29]
Enhancing the Personal Image
Podcast appearances, with their informal settings and long-form conversational format, allowed candidates not only to reach new, larger, and targeted audiences but also to present a better, more humanized, and relatable image of themselves. This aspect understandably makes a huge difference when it comes to making one’s public figure and political message more appealing and resonant with the masses, thereby easing the quest for voters’ support.
As Nic Newman, senior research associate at the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism said in a recent interview: “For listeners, podcasts humanize politics in a way that is identifiable to people and that engages them in a different way. Politicians can be seen in a different light to how they’re often portrayed in the news, which is often in a controversial argument or a ten second soundbite.”[30]
And as public relations and communication expert Casey Weldon wrote in a recent article: “Many of these listeners may be hearing from the candidates in a meaningful way for the first time. These shows offer a great chance for candidates to make a strong impression and connect with listeners on a deeper level than they could through a tweet or TV ad. While a podcast may not be enough to win someone’s vote, it can be an important first step toward doing so.”[31]
While in a recent commentary published by the Brookings Institute, Elaine Kamarck, senior fellow and founding director of the Center for Effective Public Management, and Jordan Muchnick, research analyst and managing editor of the FixGov blog, stressed: “Again, going on these podcasts allows politicians to be humanized in a less formal setting in ways we might not otherwise see.”[32]
As Jennifer Mercieca, professor at Texas A&M University and historian of political rhetoric in the U.S., stated: “If you're a big fan of Joe Rogan and you hear Trump on there for three hours, you’re gonna feel like you really know Trump after listening to that podcast. [...] It can have a big impact with that audience.”[33]
It is no coincidence, then, that Alex Bruesewitz, a campaign advisor on Trump’s team, told Forbes magazine in October 2024: “Engaging with podcasters, comedians, and influencers allows people to see that human side of President Trump that the mainstream media deliberately won’t cover.”[34]
Furthermore, Elon Musk, owner of X and strong supporter of Trump’s 2024 campaign, seemed to indirectly give some additional insights into the Republican contender's media strategy and explain his strong presence in podcasts. In an interview with Carlson Tucker[35] after the election, Musk said: “I think it made a big difference that President Trump and soon-to-be Vice President Vance went on lengthy podcasts. I think this really makes a difference because people look at , like, Joe Rogan’s podcast, which is great, and Lex Fridman’s and the All-In podcast, and you know, to a reasonable-minded, smart person – who’s not, like, hardcore one way or the other – they just listen to someone talk for a few hours and that’s how they decide whether, you know, you’re a good person, whether they like you.”[36] While this is Musk’s perspective and not necessarily an undisputed fact, his statement seems revealing about the Republican contender's media strategy.
Moreover, as author Brady Brickner-Wood wrote in The New Yorker magazine: “The main ways we’ve consumed him [Donald Trump] over the past nine years of his political life – cable-news interviews, rally speeches, and, when he actually does them, debates – could never have produced such a strange, sudden moment of candor. [...] When a public figure sits across from a podcast host to embark on a purportedly shapeless, stream-of-consciousness chat suffused with crude jokes and senseless tangents, an odd alchemy occurs: the speakers begin to sound like pals bantering at a pre-game, with the listener as a silent confidant.”[37]
The Influence of Podcasts on Audience Behavior
As Elaine Kamarck and Jordan Muchnick wrote in their Brookings Institute commentary[38] citing a recent study conducted by the Pew Research Center:[39] “Four in 10 listeners aged 18 to 29 (40%) and 30 to 49 (41%) say they have made or tried a lifestyle change because of something they heard on a podcast (compared to 32% of listeners aged 50 to 64 and 22% of those 65 and over). Adults under 50 are more likely than their elders to report joining an online discussion group related to a podcast they listened to (22% of those aged 18 to 29, 18% of those aged 30 to 49, 13% of those aged 50 to 64, and five percent of those 65 and over). This is important for campaigns to understand because it demonstrates the impact that podcasts can have on young listeners who otherwise might not be engaged with politics.”[40] As these authors underscore, the research available so far seems to suggest that podcasts have a profound influence on audiences’ comportment – and particularly on younger publics – and possibly in shaping their political behavior.
Additionally, podcasts foster a sense of community, with listeners forming strong bonds with their favorite shows and hosts. As Andy Bowers of Spooler Media explains, listeners often feel an intense loyalty to podcasts, viewing them as part of a social club: “People who listen to podcasts often feel an intense loyalty to their favorites, almost like they’re part of a club of people with similar traits and interests – and a candidate has been invited into that club for a day.”[41] This sense of belonging can translate into a deeper connection with the candidates who appear on these shows, which might represent a powerful advantage in a political context.
Understandably, the influence of podcasts vis-à-vis their followers becomes even more impactful not only when podcasters host candidates in their shows but particularly when they endorse a specific candidate, as it was the case of Joe Rogan, who is notoriously not a partisan[42] and had previously firmly criticized both Trump[43] and Harris[44] and had said during a Lex Fridman podcast in 2022,[45] among other things, that he was “not a Trump supporter in any way, shape, or form”.[46] After hosting Trump in his record-breaking podcast, Joe Rogan seemed to have changed his mind about the Republican contender, as he decided – in a surprise move – to formally and publicly endorse Trump just the day before the election,[47] with the influence one can imagine this might have over the voting intentions of his followers.
Voting Data and Trends
The 2024 U.S. presidential election witnessed the second-largest total voter turnout in U.S. history in absolute terms, following the record-breaking 2020 election. Trump won 77 million votes, 3 million more than he garnered in 2020. Kamala Harris, on the other hand, attained almost 75 million votes, about 6 million fewer than Biden won in 2020.[48]
The 2024 voting patterns highlighted a significant shift in younger voter behavior. In 2020, Americans under the age of 30 voted clearly for the Democratic candidate, with less than 40% supporting the Republican contender. In 2024, the situation experienced a major shift: Trump gained 10 percentage points among the youngest voting groups, who habitually lean toward progressive candidates.[49] [50] Among 30- to 39-year-olds, this gain was 5 percentage points. Older voters showed patterns similar to those seen in 2020,[51] with Harris making some gains only among constituents aged 65 and older, a traditionally Republican-leaning group in which the voting gap was in favor of Trump in 2020[52] and nearly leveled between the two contenders in 2024.[53] Although marginal, this shift represents another interesting move.
These voting data and shifts might suggest that Trump’s 2024 campaign approach of a strong presence in podcasts and other new media – platforms notoriously favored by less seasoned audiences – thanks particularly to the so-called ‘multiplier effect’, likely played a crucial role in narrowing the previous election’s huge gap among younger voters’ support.
Concurrently, Harris’ more marked reliance on traditional media outlets and her more limited podcast appearances and consequent underexposure to the so-called ‘multiplier effect’ might explain why – compared to the 2020 election – the Democratic candidate gained some slight support only among older voters and lost substantial backing among younger constituents, which likely resulted in being one of the key factors in securing the victory for the presidential seat.
Final Thoughts
The 2024 U.S. presidential election highlighted the transformative power of podcasts and demonstrated that this mean of mass communication, and new media broadly speaking, have become progressively important tools for shaping political campaign strategies and influencing voter behavior.
These platforms offer candidates unique outreach and engagement opportunities, allow for in-depth, less formal, and more authentic connections with the audience, help enhance the candidate’s image and political message appeal, and possibly influence voters’ behavior. The format’s success and its ‘multiplier effect’ suggest podcasts will play an increasingly important role in future campaign media strategies, much as television defined the Kennedy-Nixon election of 1960 and social media transformed Obama’s 2008 campaign.
As public relations expert Ashley Mann wrote on LinkedIn: “One major takeaway from the election? Mainstream media is losing its hold on the public. The numbers don’t lie: we’re witnessing a fundamental transformation in how Americans consume information. […] The PR playbook needs a complete rewrite. Traditional media’s gatekeepers are being bypassed by hosts who offer long-form, unfiltered conversations that resonate deeply with specific audiences. For communications professionals, the message is clear – if you’re still prioritizing legacy media over podcasts and newsletters, you’re fighting yesterday's battle. The future of influence lies in authentic, targeted conversations, not polished sound bites.” [54]
The Republican candidate’s campaign demonstrated a strong understanding of the shifting media landscape and Trump’s extensive podcast appearances undoubtedly allowed him to expand his reach, and his attendance on popular shows like The Joe Rogan Experience likely helped him augment the number of supporters and narrow the previous election’s gap in voting preferences, particularly among younger constituents.
On the other hand, as The Times newspaper columnist James Marriott highlighted in a recent article: “Over the course of the past few months, Democrats have played impeccably by the old rules: expensively produced television adverts, a much-eulogized ground operation in the swing states, phalanxes of eager volunteers sallying forth to pound pavements and knock on doors.”[55]
And as authors Tatiana Siegel and Todd Spangler wrote in a recent article published in Variety: “As the dust settles on a devastating election for the Democratic Party, it is clear that Harris relied on an outdated playbook – one that opted for Howard Stern, who pioneered bro radio in the ’90s but whose influence is now negligible – and failed to see the significance of Rogan.”[56]
Additionally, when looking at how both candidates allocated their funds for media advertisements, figures reported by a recent NBC News article suggest that Trump’s campaign spent approximately $425 million, while Harris’ campaign disbursed more than double that amount – around $880 million.[57] In other words, Trump’s campaign media strategy, which emphasized a strong presence in podcasts and leveraged their earned media nature and so-called ‘multiplier effect’, was not only more effective in reaching its objectives but also significantly more cost-efficient, revealing that podcasts are an exceptionally powerful tool for political campaigns also from a financial perspective.
What remains to be seen is how this shift toward podcast-driven political communication will continue to develop as the medium itself – and the overall media landscape – evolves. The 2024 election may mark not just a tactical victory for podcast-savvy campaigning but also a fundamental transformation in how political messages are delivered and received in American democracy. As traditional media continues to fragment and younger voters increasingly rely on digital platforms for political discourse, campaigns will likely need to master both the intimate, long-form nature of podcast appearances and the viral dynamics of social media sharing.
Finally, the success of Trump’s podcast strategy in 2024 – achieving greater reach and engagement at a fraction of the cost of traditional advertising – suggests that future campaigns may need to completely reimagine their budgets and outreach strategies. This evolution could potentially democratize political communication, reducing reliance on massive advertising budgets and legacy media appearances. However, it also raises important questions about the potential concentration of political influence among popular podcast hosts, and the echo chamber effects of algorithmic-driven content distribution and the transparency of these mechanisms. These considerations will likely shape campaign strategies and political discourse well beyond the 2024 election cycle.
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[9] Warren, P., 2024. What role did Joe Rogan and other podcasters play in the 2024 presidential election? Houston Chronicle. November 8.
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[35] Carlson, T., 2024. Tucker Carlson Election Night LIVE From Mar-a-Lago With Special Guests. YouTube. November 6.
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[41] Bauder, D., 2024. By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages. Associated Press. October 24.
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[43] Shepherd, B. and Chang, E., 2024. Trump to appear on Joe Rogan’s podcast in play for young male voters. ABC News. October 25.
[44] Quillen, S., 2024. Trump, Harris turn to podcasts, and maybe Joe Rogan, for US election boost. Al Jazeera. October 23.
[45] Fridman, L., 2022. Joe Rogan: Comedy, Controversy, Aliens, UFOs, Putin, CIA, and Freedom. Lex Fridman Podcast #300. YouTube. July 4.
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[52] Molski, M., 2024. How voting demographics changed between 2020 and 2024 presidential elections. NBC Washington. November 6.
[53] Wolf, Z.B., Merrill, C. and Mullery, W., 2024. Anatomy of three Trump elections: How Americans shifted in 2024 vs. 2020 and 2016. CNN. December 13.
[54] Mann, A., 2024. LinkedIn. November 6.
[55] Marriott, J., 2024. How Joe Rogan helped Donald Trump to win America. The Times. November 11.
[56] Siegel, T. and Spangler, T., 2024. Joe Rogan and the Fifth Estate: How the Podcaster and a Group of Cable News Exiles Became More Powerful Than Traditional Media. Variety. November 13.
[57] Kamisar, B., 2024. The final price tag on 2024 political advertising: Almost $11 billion. NBC News. November 8.
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